601 waiver 50% more chance when you have a child?????????????

[adeildo]

few months ego I spoke with a lawyer and she said; I don't adivice you to live the USA if you don't have any kids USC,
enyone knows if it make any sense, thanks.

[Laura]

Well, we've definitely heard that many attorneys say that, but if you look at the stats of people on this site there are plenty who do not have kids and have been approved. It really depends on the arguments you have for hardship. Having kids on its own does not create more hardships. If you have a child that has some sort of disease that requires regular medical care that can only be afforded or obtained in the U.S., you can turn that into a strong hardship for the parent, but it's not as simple as just having kids.

[adeildo]

Well, we've definitely heard that many attorneys say that, but if you look at the stats of people on this site there are plenty who do not have kids and have been approved. It really depends on the arguments you have for hardship. Having kids on its own does not create more hardships. If you have a child that has some sort of disease that requires regular medical care that can only be afforded or obtained in the U.S., you can turn that into a strong hardship for the parent, but it's not as simple as just having kids.

I agree: "but it's not as simple as just havig kids"

total disagree:":having kids on its own does not create more hardships"

[Laura]

Okay, let me clarify. It may, in reality, it does more hardships, because, for example, a person with kids has more trouble relocating, probably has to pay for day care while the spouse is gone, etc, but those are not extreme hardships, even to the most lenient adjudicators in CDJ.

Besides that, the people who adjudicate waivers do not take into account any hardships that are not referred back to the U.S. citizen. Here's an example:

1) Couple has no children but USC spouse has some medical issues that require medication and ongoing care that can only be reliably obtained in the U.S., with health insurance, etc. Here there is an obvious argument - moving to XXX country the USC cannot work, therefore cannot qualify for health insurance, therefore cannot get required care. So the USC has to give up that care which could cause future complications, extreme hardship, etc, if the spouse's waiver is not approved.

2) Couple has three healthy children, none of whom require anything but regular check-ups and USC is perfectly healthy. Here there are no immediately obvious extreme hardships. although there are children. I realize there are actual hardships when you think about the kids having to move abroad, learn a new language, etc, but there are no obvious extreme hardship arguments here because it's not considered extreme to have your kids relocate, and the USC's health is not at risk moving abroad.

That's just an example, but that is what I meant.

[Sabrina022203]

I agree with Laura. We didn't have any kids and we were approved. I wouldn't have kids just to try to get approved as this is not what it is based off of. There are many things they look at when approving a waiver not just if you have children. I know we put in the hsl letter that we would like to have children but have waited due to the process.

[chalakita]

Man, I am not planning to have kids just to get approved, we decided to wait until all this nightmare (thats how we called it) is over, but before we started this process we thought that only people with kids got approved (bad lawyer told me this) but there are a lot of cases without kids that got approved and that gave me and my hubby a hope. Adeildo, probably with kids things are a little harder, man I really hope Lima gives you an answer soon :)

[JMRJ]

Definitely, don't try to have kids just for the sake of the HSL .

Children are not qualifying relatives but their existence is part of the totality of the circumstances and the extreme hardship standard set by the congress:

FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS - Future employability; loss due to sale of home or business or termination of a professional practice; decline in standard of living; ability to recoup short-term losses; cost of extraordinary needs such as special education or training for children; cost of care for family members (i.e., elderly and infirm parents).

PERSONAL CONSIDERATIONS - Close relatives in the United States; separation from spouse/children; ages of involved parties; length of residence and community ties in the United States.

http://www.familybasedimmigration.com/forum/waivers.php


Laurel: Hardship to the kids is relavant only as it relates back to hardship to the qualifying relative. If your kids suffer, you suffer. But you need to point out how it makes the parent suffer.

http://immigrate2us.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12540

[MMGCA]

Oh yeah!...i already have 2 boys, but it took us to 6 years to start the process, and im dieying to try n see if God bless us with a baby girl!!...but we have to wait until this immigration process is over. as it is we are risking too much, because like laura said having kids dosen't guarantee an aproval.

[jessfs8]

I agree with Laura about the argument of having kids as a hardship, how many women raise their kids without the help of the father? I for one have a 9 year old son that has not seen his dad since he was 4 and of course that means no help but I have been able to raise him by myself without his help, so if I did it and many others here have done it, why cant you? it would be the question the adjudicator will ask if using just that fact as the hardship.

[chalakita]

JMJR - You made a good point - No kids until this thing is completely over, I cant wait to be a mom :(

[Mami-cinco]

I understand what everyone is saying, though I will add that I was a single parent and it was extremely hard!

[JMRJ]

There is no guarantee to an approval. It depends on how the case is presented - the evidence submitted to support the extreme hardship claims, the criminal history of an alien, the ground of inadmissibility, etc. It's a whole package.

A qualifying spouse can have a cancer and still can get denied if the hardship packet is missing an evidence to support the argument.



sandra: Mr. Warren why isn't usc children considered a hardship, when many studies have shown that children are negatively impacted without a father figure.

Warren: Good point. We can and do look at hardships children are facing indirectly because their problems can cause problems for the spouse.

http://www.smf.juarez-mexico.com/index.php?topic=530.msg4141#msg4141

[JMRJ]

I understand what everyone is saying, though I will add that I was a single parent and it was extremely hard!

Don't worry papi-cinco. As long as you are aware on how to present your case, children's hardships will be considered.

[adeildo]

we know just because you have kids its not 100% going to be approval, of course not the lawyer din't say if you don't have a kid you will be denied,he said if you have kids you will have more chance.
we know that , we don't want our kids growup in south america (in my case BRASIL) the root of crime is high,alot of deceases, healthcare is terrible.
if a couple has two kids and the man can't come over to the USA, for sure the kids will be with their mom, she has to work hard to take care of the two kids, I don't think she will make enough money,and the husband living in
south america can make enough money to send to his family in USA.I don't think the goverment would want their citizens to suffer.

[Laura]

I understand what everyone is saying, though I will add that I was a single parent and it was extremely hard!

I think it is extremely hard, but that doesn't mean the waiver adjudicators consider it an extreme hardship. What is reality and what is the waiver adjudication process are sadly two different realities.

[adeildo]

There is no guarantee to an approval. It depends on how the case is presented - the evidence submitted to support the extreme hardship claims, the criminal history of an alien, the ground of inadmissibility, etc. It's a whole package.

A qualifying spouse can have a cancer and still can get denied if the hardship packet is missing an evidence to support the argument.



sandra: Mr. Warren why isn't usc children considered a hardship, when many studies have shown that children are negatively impacted without a father figure.

Warren: Good point. We can and do look at hardships children are facing indirectly because their problems can cause problems for the spouse.

http://www.smf.juarez-mexico.com/index.php?topic=530.msg4141#msg4141


total agree with JMRJ wrote.

[Mami-cinco]

I think it is extremely hard, but that doesn't mean the waiver adjudicators consider it an extreme hardship. What is reality and what is the waiver adjudication process are sadly two different realities.

Exactly :D

[chalakita]

I think it is extremely hard, but that doesn't mean the waiver adjudicators consider it an extreme hardship. What is reality and what is the waiver adjudication process are sadly two different realities.

:ditto:

[Pinkpig]

There is no guarantee to an approval. It depends on how the case is presented - the evidence submitted to support the extreme hardship claims, the criminal history of an alien, the ground of inadmissibility, etc. It's a whole package.

A qualifying spouse can have a cancer and still can get denied if the hardship packet is missing an evidence to support the argument.



sandra: Mr. Warren why isn't usc children considered a hardship, when many studies have shown that children are negatively impacted without a father figure.

Warren: Good point. We can and do look at hardships children are facing indirectly because their problems can cause problems for the spouse.

http://www.smf.juarez-mexico.com/index.php?topic=530.msg4141#msg4141

I so agree with this. It is the whole package, weighing the mitigating and the aggravating factors. That is why you cannot make blanket statements and compare cases. Each individual case is different. Laurel has recently updated her I-601 memo and she states in there that one of the reasons for the high approval rate in CDJ may be the fact that most of the waivers there are needed for overstaying after EWI.

Many of the filers from the other countries have deportation or other aggravating factors to overcome.

Read Laurel's new memo. http://visacentral.net/I601Memo.pdf
I certainly agree with the way she addresses this.

[wanaads]

I would also add that each case is supposed to be decided on its individual facts and evidence - not necessarily compared to the facts or situations of others in similar circumstances. If there is a particular reason why raising a child without one's spouse would amount to an extreme hardship rather than a regular or normal hardship, the burden of proof rests on that person to explain why and to provide adequate evidence to back up this claim. If they can do that, then it would be just one more argument they would have in their favor that someone without children might not have.

But as has been stated, the fact that one has children in and of itself does not make approval more likely, I wouldn't think. We've seen enough denials for people with kids and approvals for people with no kids for this to be the case.

[patiencemkp]

I would definately change lawyers. The very first lawyer that we went to seven years ago told my spouse to go to his home country (after an overstay of a year) and file the paperwork there. If we would have understood the process (or if the lawyer understood the process I should say) we would not be in this boat seven years later. Definately try yourself or get another lawyer!

Patti

[adeildo]

I don't agree with what this lawyer said, but how can a person say a child is not hardship,I think who said it never had experience with kids. children is the most important thing between a couple.

[JMRJ]

I don't agree with what this lawyer said, but how can a person say a child is not hardship, children is the most important thing between a couple.
Don't worry adeildo. From reading Laurel's memo, having a child is a mitigating factor and be sure to bring it up. She further says, "Remember that aggravating and mitigating factors are not about hardship; but they do affect how much hardship you will need to show." And because every case is different, only the adjudicator can decide on what constitutes an extreme hardship.

On a side note, if this argument strong enough,

(c) Relative is caring for a moderately disabled relative who normally can care for him/herself but occasionally has episodes in which he/she needs a lot of help from Relative and during those times Relative, in turn, needs help from Alien,

(d) a relative is unusually financially dependent on Relative

... how could my hardship of taking care of my children alone who are obviously 100% dependent on me in every single aspect of their well- being round the clock - be any weaker than this level 2 argument? At least this was my own personal rationalization the very first time I heard about bringing up the children's issues on HSLs.

As what Warren Janssen said, just prove the argument indirectly. For instance, if the hardship letter states, "Alien's mother in law is dependent to alien financially" is just technically wrong. The adjudicator will dismiss this argument. The hardship claim is supposed to bind with the qualifying relative (for instance, spouse) in order to suffice as an acceptable argument. The same should hold true to the children of the qualifying relative... But then for instance, even if the qualifying relative is a single parent to 5 children and the alien has a misrepresentation aside from the unlawful presence, this charges can override this specific argument. I would say the adjudicator's thought of what is an extreme hardship will reign. Case by case basis.

[Pinkpig]

Don't worry adeildo. From reading Laurel's memo, having a child is a mitigating factor and be sure to bring it up. She further says, "Remember that aggravating and mitigating factors are not about hardship; but they do affect how much hardship you will need to show." And because every case is different, only the adjudicator can decide on what constitutes an extreme hardship.

On a side note, if this argument strong enough,

(c) Relative is caring for a moderately disabled relative who normally can care for him/herself but occasionally has episodes in which he/she needs a lot of help from Relative and during those times Relative, in turn, needs help from Alien,

(d) a relative is unusually financially dependent on Relative

... how could my hardship of taking care of my children alone who are obviously 100% dependent on me in every single aspect of their well- being round the clock - be any weaker than this level 2 argument? At least this was my own personal rationalization the very first time I heard about bringing up the children's issues on HSLs.

As what Warren Janssen said, just prove the argument indirectly. For instance, if the hardship letter states, "Alien's mother in law is dependent to alien financially" is just technically wrong. The adjudicator will dismiss this argument. The hardship claim is supposed to bind with the qualifying relative (for instance, spouse) in order to suffice as an acceptable argument. The same should hold true to the children of the qualifying relative... But then for instance, even if the qualifying relative is a single parent to 5 children and the alien has a misrepresentation aside from the unlawful presence, this charges can override this specific argument. I would say the adjudicator's thought of what is an extreme hardship will reign. Case by case basis.


JMRJ, Great point! I totally agree with your assessment! :thumbup:

[aprilstorm]

My hubby and I don't have kids. I have 4 grown kids from a previous marriage. You just have to a strong case.

[Adriane]

I don't agree with what this lawyer said, but how can a person say a child is not hardship,I think who said it never had experience with kids. children is the most important thing between a couple.

No one is saying that having kids isn't a hardship when one parent is absent. No one with or without kids of their own would ever say that.

But what is being said is that according to the law, a child is not a qualifying relative to file the I-601 hardship waiver- only a spouse/ fiance or parent is. And whoever the qualifying relative is, in this case, the spouse, the HSL needs to show extreme hardship to that person. So you need to frame hardships to your kids as hardships to yourself. You can't just say "my kids will suffer because their dad is missing," you have to say "I will be emotionally devastated watching my kids grow up without their father." Or "without two parents, my kids will not be able to blah, blah, blah," and instead say "As a single parent I will never be able to afford extra curricular activities or college, or whatever and that inability will cause me to be consumed with guilt." It has to be to you.

It is a silly distinction? Sure, absolutely. I'm sure the adjudicators don't like it anymore than we do. But that is the way it works.

[adeildo]

Don't worry adeildo. From reading Laurel's memo, having a child is a mitigating factor and be sure to bring it up. She further says, "Remember that aggravating and mitigating factors are not about hardship; but they do affect how much hardship you will need to show." And because every case is different, only the adjudicator can decide on what constitutes an extreme hardship.

On a side note, if this argument strong enough,

(c) Relative is caring for a moderately disabled relative who normally can care for him/herself but occasionally has episodes in which he/she needs a lot of help from Relative and during those times Relative, in turn, needs help from Alien,

(d) a relative is unusually financially dependent on Relative



... how could my hardship of taking care of my children alone who are obviously 100% dependent on me in every single aspect of their well- being round the clock - be any weaker than this level 2 argument? At least this was my own personal rationalization the very first time I heard about bringing up the children's issues on HSLs.

As what Warren Janssen said, just prove the argument indirectly. For instance, if the hardship letter states, "Alien's mother in law is dependent to alien financially" is just technically wrong. The adjudicator will dismiss this argument. The hardship claim is supposed to bind with the qualifying relative (for instance, spouse) in order to suffice as an acceptable argument. The same should hold true to the children of the qualifying relative... But then for instance, even if the qualifying relative is a single parent to 5 children and the alien has a misrepresentation aside from the unlawful presence, this charges can override this specific argument. I would say the adjudicator's thought of what is an extreme hardship will reign. Case by case basis.

Thanks.

[adeildo]

Well, we've definitely heard that many attorneys say that, but if you look at the stats of people on this site there are plenty who do not have kids and have been approved. It really depends on the arguments you have for hardship. Having kids on its own does not create more hardships. If you have a child that has some sort of disease that requires regular medical care that can only be afforded or obtained in the U.S., you can turn that into a strong hardship for the parent, but it's not as simple as just having kids.

Adriane- "HAVING KIDS ON ITS OWN DOES NOT CREATE MORE HARDSHIPS"

[Adriane]

Adriane- "HAVING KIDS ON ITS OWN DOES NOT CREATE MORE HARDSHIPS"

Exactly my point!:thumbup:

[sdgcas]

Hi, we have a child 2 years old and I don't think it is EXTREME HARDSHIP... Our attorney sad that they don't really count on kids. I wouldn't have kids just to try to get approved .There are many things they look at when approving a waiver not just if you have children.

[adeildo]

In my interview for the waiver, they asked me if I had kids, and if was a USC,. I told that I have just one and yes it is a USC. the lady asked me if I had the birth certificate to prove that I was the father and then she took the birth certificate and made a copy.

probably she asked for the sake of it, maybe just one more question to fill her paperwork.

[Wes&Steffi]

My husband and I have a 31/2 year old daughter and now a 6 months old son. I dont think they necessarily count as extreme hardship, but what about my husbands other children from 2 prior relationships that he does pay child support for and provides health insurance. They have a great relationship and he is VERY involved in their lives. One has chronical asthma and it was provided as an hardship. Does anybody know if that counts as hardship? We do have other hardships...we filed 8 weeks ago our 601 waiver at the Frankfurt consulat in Germany and still havent heard anything.
Thanks Steffi

[Laura]

My husband and I have a 31/2 year old daughter and now a 6 months old son. I dont think they necessarily count as extreme hardship, but what about my husbands other children from 2 prior relationships that he does pay child support for and provides health insurance. They have a great relationship and he is VERY involved in their lives. One has chronical asthma and it was provided as an hardship. Does anybody know if that counts as hardship? We do have other hardships...we filed 8 weeks ago our 601 waiver at the Frankfurt consulat in Germany and still havent heard anything.
Thanks Steffi

Who is the U.S. citizen?

[Wes&Steffi]

My husband is the US citizen as well as BOTH of our children and his other children from his previous relationships are also US citizens. We are all very close and the 2 older ones wrote letters in my behalf. One of my husbands child is very sick and we even sent in hospital bills ETC.

[Laura]

The kids from the previous marriage are a particularly strong hardship, because it's likely that he would not be able to legally remove them from the country, so he can argue that if you are barred for 10 years he would have to chose between you and his other kids, because he obviously couldn't take those kids to whatever country you are from.

He should also argue that he will suffer if he has to leave the U.S. with you and cannot continue to pay child support and be there for his ill child.

[Wes&Steffi]

Thats what I thought that his paying child support and being an acitve father in my stepchildrens life would be a good hardship. I just was reading that children dont count as a hardship. I know that our two could relocate to Germany, but I know he has no phyisical custody of his other kids just legal visitation and joint legal custody. Both mothers states they were not allowed to leave the country and be with him. No way!!!
He doesnt speak one word german and could never find a job here and provide for his children and pay child support.
Thanks for your advise. I just was not sure if that is a good hardship. We have others, but this one is one of the bigger ones we thought and after reading children dont count...I really got scared.
Thank you....so now we waited 8 weeks after filing our 601 waiver in Frankfurt we should hear something any day.....thanks everybody

[camillastrebel@yahoo.com]

All we have is a dog, and we got approved! :P She is our baby!

[adeildo]

All we have is a dog, and we got approved! :P She is our baby!

?????????????????????????????

[Pinkpig]

Definitely, don't try to have kids just for the sake of the HSL .

Children are not qualifying relatives but their existence is part of the totality of the circumstances and the extreme hardship standard set by the congress:

FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS - Future employability; loss due to sale of home or business or termination of a professional practice; decline in standard of living; ability to recoup short-term losses; cost of extraordinary needs such as special education or training for children; cost of care for family members (i.e., elderly and infirm parents).

PERSONAL CONSIDERATIONS - Close relatives in the United States; separation from spouse/children; ages of involved parties; length of residence and community ties in the United States.

http://www.familybasedimmigration.com/forum/waivers.php


Laurel: Hardship to the kids is relavant only as it relates back to hardship to the qualifying relative. If your kids suffer, you suffer. But you need to point out how it makes the parent suffer.

http://immigrate2us.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12540

:ditto:

[aprilstorm]

My husband and I don't have any kids together..I do have four grown children by a previous marriage..we were approved 1 year ago.