Citizenship Checks

[DeBenny]

Hello everyone!

Just wanted to share this piece of out the NY Times. It was in the news today, too.

April 2, 2008, 5:01 pm
A Protest Over Bus and Train Citizenship Checks
By Jennifer 8. Lee


Protesters chanted in front of Pennsylvania Station before marching to the Port Authority along Eighth Avenue. (Photo: Todd Heisler/The New York Times)Can you be asked to demonstrate your citizenship or residency if you are riding on Amtrak or Greyhound inside the United States?

The answer, apparently, is yes — according to the United States government’s border and transportation officials.

But the frequency of this practice in New York State has raised protests from immigration advocates, who demonstrated in a march on Wednesday afternoon between Pennsylvania Station and Port Authority Bus Terminal.

It used to be a practice that was heard about only once in a while near upstate cities like Buffalo and Syracuse, said Maria Muentes, a spokeswoman with Families For Freedom, a group that helps people fight deportation. “Now we’re seeing it several times a week.”

The group had one instance in which a family was stopped and the mother detained on the train between New York and Chicago. “They should warn people that this could happen,” Ms. Muentes said.

Customs and Border Protection, a division of the Department of Homeland Security, said the stops are just part of routine practice that has gotten more frequent as the manpower on the Canadian border has increased. In the last few years, the number of agents along the northern border has tripled, according to Ramon Rivera, an agency spokesperson.

That is still but a fraction of the southern border — 3,000 agents for a 4,000-mile border compared with 13,000 agents on the 2,000-mile Mexican border.

Amtrak has agreed to cooperate with border inspections on a random basis within 75 miles of the border, said Cliff Cole, an Amtrak spokesperson. “We’re merely facilitating their request to board the train,” he said. The train between Chicago and New York, called the Lakeshore Limited, passes within 75 miles of the border, he said.

Greyhound also said it simply complies with law enforcement requests, be it local, state or federal. “We are under no obligation to inform customers of law enforcement activity at any time,” said Dustin Clark, a Greyhound spokesman. And the bus company plays no role in the inspections. “The frequency and timing is up to the law enforcement,” he said.

While Ms. Muentes said anecdotal reports showed that the agents were focusing on Latinos in the inspections, Mr. Rivera said, “We don’t racial profile in the United States Border Patrol.”

So what exactly are the agents looking for?

If you are a permanent resident in the country, that is a green card holder, you are obligated to keep your resident alien identification card (which is not green, by the way) with you at all times.

But how does one exactly prove citizenship? It’s not like we’re walking around with citizenship cards, despite attempts at a national ID card, or a proxy for one. Hardly anyone carries birth certificates (which don’t have photos anyway, and even if they did, who looks the same as when they were one-day old?). And driver’s licenses, which may or may not become de facto national IDs, are not equated to legal residence as the furor over issuing licenses to illegal immigrants have shown.

“All you have to do is state you are a U.S. citizen,” Mr. Rivera said of the Border and Customs Patrol.

That’s it? That seemed suspiciously simple. What if people lie?

And indeed they do. Each year, “We have thousands of people falsely claiming to a U.S. citizens,” he said.

Well, then a simple declarative statement of citizenship doesn’t seem to be a very effective filter, does it?

That’s where the biometric fingerprints, background checks and interviews come in, he explained.

Here is the actual article on the NY Times (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/a-protest-over-bus-and-train-citizenship-checks/)

[discoviking]

I am a naturalized US citizen. But if asked where I was born, the answer is 'Norway'. I have a valid NJ drivers license, but that is not proof of citizenship. It was issued while I was an LPR, actually. I am not obligated nor willing to carry my US passport or naturalization certificate at all times. I will be carrying a US passport card once issued, but how do I prove my status in the meantime?

[IBMMuseum]

On another forum I am really hitting on this theme that declarations of citizenship are now starting to crop up away from the border areas, and transitioning to requiring proof. ICE can legally prompt for citizenship/immigration status anywhere in the U.S., but Border Patrol enforcement is supposed to be only in areas within 100 miles of a border or coast. The permanent Border Patrol checkpoint that is close to where we live is still asking for declarations of citizenship, but could effectively change to asking for proof just like a Port of Entry (and the Border Patrol can set up temporary checkpoints in that 100 mile area from borders too).

As I comment, if asked for the citizenship proof I carry on a regular basis (when not travelling outside the United States) would it be:

My Driver's Licence?

No, because that is issued by the state of New Mexico, which does not check immigration status for the license...

My military ID?

No, because Legal Permant Residents can be servicemembers too...

It is my lowly New Mexico Voter's Registration card...

[discoviking]

In theory, that could be challenged, too. What kind of proof does NM require when you register to vote? Here in NJ, all I had to do to register was to fill out and send in a voters registration form. I had to cross a box stating I am a US citizen and write in my drivers licence number, but last time I renewed my dl I was still an LPR, so the drivers license proves nothing. The voters registration was not challenged, and I have not, nor have I any intention of going to the DMV to have them update any kind of immigration status they may or may not have on file. This indicates to me that there is nothing to prevent a non-citizen from registering to vote in the state of New Jersey. Of course it is illegal for a non-citizen to claim citizenship and register - which is why i did not register until becoming naturalized - but it also tells me that being a registerd NJ voter proves nothing.

Realistically i do not expect to be challenged by ICE or the Border Patrol, for the simple fact that I do not fit the streotypical profile of an illegal immigrant. I am scandinavian (not easily mistaken for a latino), I am fluent in english with not much of an accent, and I can play the 'Ugly American' part pretty good when I want to.

But, it's the principle of the issue that bothers me. I have no issue with being inspected at a Port of Entry, but once inside US Borders it is a different matter. Unless there is probable cause (and I do not think simply being non-caucasian is sufficient probable cause) I have a problem with immigration officials checking status. I have a feeling that if I ever get questioned, I will have quite an attitude about it and will have a few polite, but choice words for whomever is doing the inspecting.

[IBMMuseum]

In theory, that could be challenged, too. What kind of proof does NM require when you register to vote? Here in NJ, all I had to do to register was to fill out and send in a voters registration form. I had to cross a box stating I am a US citizen and write in my drivers licence number, but last time I renewed my dl I was still an LPR, so the drivers license proves nothing. The voters registration was not challenged, and I have not, nor have I any intention of going to the DMV to have them update any kind of immigration status they may or may not have on file. This indicates to me that there is nothing to prevent a non-citizen from registering to vote in the state of New Jersey. Of course it is illegal for a non-citizen to claim citizenship and register - which is why i did not register until becoming naturalized - but it also tells me that being a registerd NJ voter proves nothing...

In my case it was actually a visit to the county clerk and sitting down in front of a desk for a time. I don't remember the specifics, but yes, it probably is not infallible. When they did issue the plastic card later by mail, mine had the envelope opened (which I did call on).

...Realistically i do not expect to be challenged by ICE or the Border Patrol, for the simple fact that I do not fit the streotypical profile of an illegal immigrant. I am scandinavian (not easily mistaken for a latino), I am fluent in english with not much of an accent, and I can play the 'Ugly American' part pretty good when I want to.

But, it's the principle of the issue that bothers me. I have no issue with being inspected at a Port of Entry, but once inside US Borders it is a different matter. Unless there is probable cause (and I do not think simply being non-caucasian is sufficient probable cause) I have a problem with immigration officials checking status. I have a feeling that if I ever get questioned, I will have quite an attitude about it and will have a few polite, but choice words for whomever is doing the inspecting.

There is a permanent checkpoint (no Probable Cause is needed for a warrantless search there, since the permanent checkpoints or their "equivalent" temporary checkpoints are defined as "adjacent" to the border even though that can be up to 100 miles away) less than two hours' drive from us. At least the questioning is more consistant now (always prompting for a statement of U.S. citizenship). Before I have been asked (at different times, and mind you these are Border Patrol officers):

"Where are you going?"

"Where did you come from today?"

"Is the vehicle registered to you?"

"Are you from around here?"

"Are you travelling alone?"

You can search on the forum for my account of two Border Patrol vehicle stops that has happened to me and my family within the last eight months. It is a fact of life that we have had to adjust to here. I know, it bugs the hell out of me all of the time that we have fallen this far.

In my wildest dreams while young I would have never thought the United States would have a "Department of Homeland Security" and that I would be asked if I was a U.S. citizen so many times that I have lost count...