The Beast is Dead Again

[Laurel Scott]

Fortunately the anti-immigrant bill has been once again defeated in the Senate. The bill was incorrectly characterized by the press as pro-immigrant. It most decidedly was not. We are lucky that the bill has been defeated. We must now go back and educate the public on immigration issues before we try to get any more legislation introduced. If we fail to educate the public and the press, we can only expect more of the same.

See my blog at laurelscott.blog.com

[mandy]

Laural I agree!!! Maybe in 2 years......

[elvia]

So many people had the misunderstanding that this would be their salvation.
I agree... maybe in two years

[Naniz]

:wha: Gee..I guess I was one of the people that thought it was a good bill. although i do admit i really did not understand much of it. I just thought it was pro Immigrants and hoped it would do something to reduce or get rid of my husband's 10 year bar.

Was this not the case? What was so wrong with the bill??? Please start by educating me first. :confused1:

[Laura]

Naniz -- Here are a few links that will help you understand why many of us were not in favor of this bill.

NILC Opposes Current Senate Bill (http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/CIR/cir026.htm)

Laurel Scott's Opinion (http://laurelscott.blog.com/) (make sure you read the last three or four posts)

Para Justicia y Libertad on the bill (http://xicanopwr.com/2007/05/immigration-reform-being-played-for-a-fool-again/)

These are just a few examples... I encourage everyone to seek out information and commentary on immigration and then share that info with others!

:bounce:

[Laurel Scott]

When the Grand Bargain came out, I read something on the AILA attorneys-only thread about the family preference categories being eliminated. I thought they meant that all the categories would be put on an equal footing, rather than portions of the total family cap being allocated to each category. I glanced over the plan for legalizing those 12-20 million every talks about. I thought the fines were too high and I thought the touchback provision would be trouble. I started looking for a Family Unity Amendment similar to the one we had last year. I didn't see one, but I figured maybe we'd get to it during the amendments process the same way it was added last year. I was happy the DREAM Act was incorported, though I thought it took to long to get permanent residence. But, you know, nothing terrible. I wasn't expecting a perfect bill. We all knew some compromise would have to happen. It sounded like there were problems, but maybe we could make some of them less bad with amendments and the rest we might learn to live with.

Then, while reviewing the bill, the summaries, and the comments from attorneys on the AILA thread, it became clear that they were, in fact, eliminating most of the family-based categories, not just putting them all on an equal footing. My jaw dropped and a slow, quiet, "Oh my God" escaped my lips. I think my skin even got a few shades lighter for a minute. That alone was too much to give up. It was a signal that the future of legal immigration was on the line and it was an indicator that there were racist tinges to the motivations of the restrictinists.

Then I started reading the comments from attorneys who are experts in business immigration, judicial review, and civil rights. I mean the real experts, not wanna-be-experts like Lou Dobbs. They were all up in arms. I read that the diversity visa lottery was being eliminated. It was getting worse and worse. I was shaking my head in disbelief. What was more amazing that the extreme stupidity of the provisions in the bill, was that the press was only taking about what the bill was giving immigrants and wasn't talking about what it was taking away.

I was incredibly disappointed and disturbed by what was presented. I immediately opposed the bill altogether and never wavered from that position. I knew we'd lost A LOT of ground in the past 12 months. The CIR bill that passed the Senate a year ago was a thousand times better. What all of this told me was that we had a lot of work ahead of us and there would be no desireable reform in 2007.

[Laura]

I think it's an important point to make that that bill was in fact, anti-immigrant on many levels.

Sure, in 12 years, someone here illegally now would have the chance to get permanent residency (after years with this temporary, unclear, Z status), but how many of our relatively low-educated husbands or wives would have qualified for PR status under that proposed point system anyway?

Most Americans, even the ones that hate the fact that there are millions of people living here illegally, support legal immigration, and (minus the Lou Dobbs contingency) could support a plan that expanded legal immigration to a degree that might actually stem the flow of illegal immigration. If Mexican and other Central Americans (or anyone) had the opportunity to work here with guest-worker or some sort of intermediate status (with the same labor rights as any citizens, AND the ability to change jobs at will) in large enough numbers to meet the demands of the economy, we might actually address the problem. I think those needs clearly need to be tempered by the rate of unemployment among the native-born population, but unemployment is relatively low, and there is only so much we can do to "force" Americans to pick fruit and clean hotel rooms.

Fences, walls and technology are not going to fix the problem as long as American employers are clamoring for low-skilled work and Mexicans, etc., are clamoring to do it. Also, those that put down roots here, even if they began with temporary status, and get promoted to better positions, etc., should be rewarded with the opportunity to make their lives in the U.S. permanent. The proposed bill would not only not allow guest workers to bring their families, but it would not allow any future opportunity for those workers to pursue permanent residency. That is wrong.

The thing is, all the media around the bill was focused on the buzz word "amnesty" and the "need" for border security, because Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that the southern border is the next Al Qaeda training camp (or something). :bang:

[Naniz]

OH my God, I had NO clue!!!! I even cried when i heard it had all gone nowhere. All my family was really disappointed. Immagine the million of people that think this way!!!

I will now make it a point to better educate myself and all those that I know. I know this site will help me do this. Thanks guys.

[Coventrated]

Most Americans, even the ones that hate the fact that there are millions of people living here illegally, support legal immigration and (minus the Lou Dobbs contingency) could support a plan that expanded legal immigration to a degree that might actually stem the flow of illegal immigration.

Agreed.

Lou Dobbs has been metioned a few times recently, must try and watch him. He is against all immigration?

If Mexican and other Central Americans (or anyone) had the opportunity to work here with guest-worker or some sort of intermediate status (with the same labor rights as any citizens, AND the ability to change jobs at will) in large enough numbers to meet the demands of the economy, we might actually address the problem.

Numbers are always contentious, but lets say for arguement:

500,000 Unskilled Visa's.

They would be open to all countries.

Say 20% went to immediate neighbours, I am sure the demand would be high from all countries. This is much more than the relative population would warrant.

So 100,000 to immediate neighbours, against a flow currently of how many? Much much more anyway. So what would the ones who can not get a Visa do?

I think those needs clearly need to be tempered by the rate of unemployment among the native-born population, but unemployment is relatively low, and there is only so much we can do to "force" Americans to pick fruit and clean hotel rooms.

Where I live it is mainly constructon, I think I saw the Agriculture sector accounted for 5%.

What happens when the economy downturns, as I am sure it will, Demand to come is still there.

Fences, walls and technology are not going to fix the problem as long as American employers are clamoring for low-skilled low paid work and Mexicans Indian/Chinese/African etc, etc., are clamoring to do it.

Any solution needs to be Comprehensive and will not be foolproof.

Also, those that put down roots here, even if they began with temporary status, and get promoted to better positions, etc., should be rewarded with the opportunity to make their lives in the U.S. permanent. The proposed bill would not only not allow guest workers to bring their families, but it would not allow any future opportunity for those workers to pursue permanent residency. That is wrong.

Agreed

The thing is, all the media around the bill was focused on the buzz word "amnesty" and the "need" for border security, because Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that the southern border is the next Al Qaeda training camp (or something). :bang

Obviously not.

But an easy way of entry, and it can only be a matter of time before there is an outrage involving undocumented entry.

Then what?

Best to get it sorted first.

[Laurel Scott]

But an easy way of entry, and it can only be a matter of time before there is an outrage involving undocumented entry.


I think the situation is more volatile than is widely discussed. The tension is building. A spark could ignite widespread violence.

[Coventrated]

Whose fault - the Politicians, both parties.

Who will be blamed, anybody but themselves.

[Laurel Scott]

There's enough blame to go around:
- Congress for making crappy laws
- The Executive Branch for interpreting the crappy laws in the crappiest possible way
- The Supreme Court for not throwing out the Unconstitutional crappy sections
- Aliens for not following the crappy laws
- The press for not reporting how crappy the laws are
- The public for not giving enough consideration to the possibility that maybe the law is crappy
- Advocates for allowing discouragement to lead to apathy

[Coventrated]

Proximate cause is Congress.

I would guess is that the Executive given crappy laws enacted them is the most defendable way.

Do not know enough about Supeme Court involvment, butits balance has moved so we can still blame both sides.

Press is interesting, difficult to find anyone who has a detailed knowledge, most of what is written in my local rag, Denver Post, is factually wrong.

The public, well what is Congress's approval rating, I think they know. Getting decent alternates is the issue. The system is designed to be self perpetuating.

Not sure so much about advocates and aliens so will leave it at that.